{"id":464838,"date":"2024-11-13T08:28:41","date_gmt":"2024-11-13T07:28:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.devoteam.com\/podcast\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\/"},"modified":"2025-02-18T10:48:34","modified_gmt":"2025-02-18T09:48:34","slug":"cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/en-se\/podcast\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\/","title":{"rendered":"CIO Confessions EP.1 &#8211; Why People Are Still Key to Success in the Age of AI"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Podcast-CIO-Confessions-LinkedIn-post-1-1024x535.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-142805\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this episode of CIO Confessions&#8217;, our host, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/gert-jan-van-halem\"><strong>Gert Jan van Halem<\/strong><\/a>, discusses the importance of balancing day-to-day operations with long-term strategic planning with Devoteam&#8217;s CIO, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/nathalie-bachour-a5432a1\/\"><strong>Nathalie Bachour<\/strong><\/a>. She shares 5 lessons on how AI will impact the workplace, particularly the service desk, and the need for social change to address potential job displacement. <span style=\"box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;\">Her insights illuminate the importance of having strong&nbsp;<strong>foundations&nbsp;<\/strong>within an IT department and the critical balance between effective people management and leveraging technological advancements, particularly in the challenging landscape of AI.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-5-lessons-you-will-learn-from-this-episode\">5 Lessons You Will Learn From This Episode<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>1. <\/strong>Embrace the Contradictions of AI Adoption<br><strong>2. <\/strong>Bridge the Communication Gap with the Business on AI<br><strong>3. <\/strong>Prepare for the Societal Impact of AI<br><strong>4. <\/strong>Empower Your Team to Embrace Responsible AI<br><strong>5. <\/strong>Prioritise People amid Technological Change<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"width: 100%; height: 260px; margin-bottom: 20px; border-radius: 6px; overflow:hidden;\"><iframe style=\"width: 100%; height: 260px;\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" allow=\"clipboard-write\" seamless src=\"https:\/\/player.captivate.fm\/episode\/0342424f-f5db-4386-aa00-35979afce6ff\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/4eCtQ1LzudyoBjnr6QHPnw?si=2b6297fed55543f4\">Listen on Spotify<\/a><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/cio-confessions\/id1778043034\">Listen on Apple Podcasts<\/a><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https:\/\/deezer.page.link\/EjUmX1NU74tD9t4JA\">Listen on Deezer<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<details class=\"wp-block-details has-secondary-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-details-is-layout-flow\" style=\"padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--small);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--small);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--small);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--small)\"><summary>Episode Transcription<\/summary>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:00:00] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> So today we are joined with Nathalie Bachour. Nathalie, thank you for joining us. You are the CIO of Devoteam.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:00:16] <strong>Jingle:<\/strong> This is the CIO Confessions, a podcast by Devoteam.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:00:27] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Great. First of all, thank you for this opportunity to be part of this podcast and share my experience with so many listeners. So to tell you about my experience at Devoteam as CIO, actually it&#8217;s very new because I was promoted CIO a few months ago, but I have a lot of years at Devoteam as a consultant for 10 years, and then as part of group it for the last four years as business apps director.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:00:57] So lots of experience in [00:01:00] technology through a major transformation programs. And then lots of contacts with the business at Devoteam led me to this current position.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:01:09] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> And technology has always been your background. Is that what you studied or did you come from some other backgrounds?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:01:14] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Absolutely. I started as a computer engineer and a few, and a few years later I had, I did my MBA. And then converted into technology consulting, management consulting and so on. So always been in the tech world. Yeah. Yeah. So&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:01:29] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> consulting, but from a tech perspective, always.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:01:32] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Yes.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:01:32] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah. Cool. And so first few months as a CIO, how do you like it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:01:38] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> I have a smile every morning. So new challenges every day. I have the opportunity and the chance to be managing great teams in an international environment. So that&#8217;s very enriching on a daily basis. And the thing is about Devoteam actually is that we learn a lot and it&#8217;s always [00:02:00] dynamic. So there is never room to slow down or to be bored about something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:02:06] Routine does not exist in any way. So far, so good few challenges. Some of them contradicting, but I guess we will talk about them later, but anyhow, it&#8217;s very thrilling.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:02:19] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> So with so a lot is going on, not boring, and that makes you smile. So you&#8217;re not somebody that thrives in boring environments.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:02:26] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> I have always worked on very hard projects, even as a consultant. I need to challenges in order to be motivated on a daily basis.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:02:35] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> So, can you take us with you in some of the challenges you have? Because so it&#8217;s not boring. What makes it not boring at the moment?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:02:42] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Currently what&#8217;s hard is that we have, I&#8217;m facing contradicting waves, I would say because of the market conditions forcing not only Devoteam, but a lot of IT services companies to slow down, but at the same time to look at the future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:02:58] And. [00:03:00] Explore new opportunities, especially with what Gen AI and AI are offering. It&#8217;s about slowing down, but at the same time preparing to be at the right level in order to embrace the future. Otherwise, it would be too late. That&#8217;s the main challenge for me and my teams. because it&#8217;s somehow contradicting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:25] And then the general challenge at Devoteam is the dynamism or I would say the overwhelming activity we have at Devoteam. But also extended by tough market conditions because it&#8217;s always, you have to be all the time, agile, flexible, hearing out the changes. And following the pace of of the business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:50] So these two are the main challenges currently.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:53] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> So if I look at it first, I think that&#8217;s an interesting one because you&#8217;re on the one end, very, sometimes very operational and it has to happen here [00:04:00] today. Now, when I have to mind the cost and the other end, you are also in a position is okay, but let&#8217;s look next year and year after.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:07] Where do we need to invest? What do we need to do? How do you balance that?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:11] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> When it&#8217;s about investing or focusing the efforts on the right topics, but sometimes, especially now, we don&#8217;t know what the right topics are. We need to explore, and even the business doesn&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s the right decision to make or that&#8217;s the right solution.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:31] If I look at how we are exploring AI. We&#8217;re partnering with the business sitting around hearing out communities and checking are we missing any opportunity somewhere and trying to grasp those. But at the same time, when we identify an interesting topic, we would definitely have to build a business case and check for strategic alignment and check for [00:05:00] our investment on that and so on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:05:02] And this is like minimal effort for those, and sometimes it&#8217;s like the best effort you can bring. At the same time, you need to stabilize business as usual, and to keep reinforcing or cleaning up your foundations. And sometimes even for that, your budget is reduced. So that&#8217;s a tough one as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:05:23] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> And is that something that you organize around? So did you split your organization or did you do not do that? So is that&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:05:31] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> It&#8217;s a cascaded culture that I&#8217;m trying to push all the time actually. Yeah. Where I asked all my managers, my n minus one and I minus two, to focus their teams on the right topics and whenever it goes out of the scope.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:05:49] to stop a bit, think about it and take and push for arbitration. Which is hard because most of the teams I have are customer oriented [00:06:00] and they want to please the customer. But at the same time, it&#8217;s about pleasing on the short term. Is it the right solution? So managers should step back in order to make the right decisions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:06:12] And that&#8217;s it. That&#8217;s also tough because they are. Drowning in all these topics and working on a daily basis on a very fast pace, so it&#8217;s sometimes hard to step back.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:06:25] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> And you said earlier, it&#8217;s also hard at the moment to see what the right thing is to do. Is that typical for now with the search of AI, or is that something that you&#8217;ve seen before, or is that really a typical AI thing that we find it hard to know what to do?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:06:40] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> It&#8217;s much more accelerated with AI. Sometimes we do face situations where we don&#8217;t really know. And that&#8217;s about the risk some departments make or take, or even CEOs take, knowing that even failing is a lesson learned. [00:07:00] And, but now with AI it&#8217;s the unknown. And it&#8217;s about establishing that dialogue between business and IT because we don&#8217;t know what are the possibilities and it&#8217;s not and the business would come with a wish list.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:07:16] However, we don&#8217;t know if this is covered by AI or not. And then IT wouldn&#8217;t know what to bring to the business in terms of value because they don&#8217;t know what they are doing. In the details of their daily tasks. And this is where the value comes with AI. It&#8217;s tell me how you work and I will maybe identify your use case with the AI solution.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:07:40] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah. And I see typical with AI also that people. See, there&#8217;s an opportunity. Oh, people, somebody is coming by now to ask me, what do you want to do with AI? And then you get a whole wish list that they had anyway, and maybe AI can help, right?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:07:51] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Exactly. Yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:07:53] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> And what&#8217;s your own expectation with AI? What&#8217;s for your job or for your department or maybe for the [00:08:00] business?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:08:00] What do you think is the biggest impact that we will have?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:08:04] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> For me, AI is going to kill a lot of, redundant activity or activity with low added value, but everywhere, not only on the business side, also on the IT side. Of course, we have to train it, educate it. We also need to educate ourselves in order to know how to use it, how to generate content that is reliable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:08:27] That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s so thrilling because this is about transforming the way we work and about augmenting ourselves. Definitely there is a lot of value there. I have a strong conviction that it&#8217;s not going to replace, whether it&#8217;s business or IT. However, if your job is only following redundant tasks with no added value, yes, so maybe that job will be More or less replaced or reduced.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:08:56] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> So for a service desk, for example, do you see any changes there in,&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:08:59] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> [00:09:00] for the service desk, it&#8217;s gonna optimize it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:03] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:04] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> It&#8217;s gonna get rid of this tedious, these tedious tasks. However, It&#8217;s gonna bring more focus maybe on what is the business value or the impact we can bring. in terms of human relation, not only robot chatbot relation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:23] So maybe some, whenever it&#8217;s basic, yeah, cover it with a robot. But when you want to add that value of human relations, business relations, partnerships, and so on. So definitely it&#8217;s part of&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:38] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah, always when I go to any help desk, I always first read the documentation and they always start with, oh, in the documentation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:45] I tried that. I really need somebody now because the documentation doesn&#8217;t work in my case and I need somebody to help me. Exactly. That&#8217;s something that definitely will not change in your opinion then as well, right? for the harder problems&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:59] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> for the harder [00:10:00] problems. No, we will definitely need each other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:03] But it&#8217;s it will remove all the basic investigation from the service desk, meaning any service desk that is very low level, most probably will be replaced.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:15] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah. And for the rest, it&#8217;s more a helper to understand the problem, really understand the problem so that you can help in a better way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:21] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Yeah,&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:22] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> that&#8217;s cool.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:23] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> That&#8217;s my conviction. But And it&#8217;s gonna have a strong social impact on everywhere.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:29] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> More than the, your, the company itself, but you mean social in the whole society as a whole. Yes. What do you see happening there?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:37] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> small jobs being replaced. And that&#8217;s a bit scary because that&#8217;s a social responsibility.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:44] There are a lot of people in society that need those small jobs. So what do we do? How do we what do we do with those jobs? And how do we conduct the change? Because we cannot disrupt like all of a sudden a society, [00:11:00] a governance or a government is responsible for. Making it happen progressively.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:11:07] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> And do you see there with AI a difference as well? Because we&#8217;ve seen that before, right? And it depends on how far you want to go back in history. But computers were a thing, cloud were a thing, because you didn&#8217;t need DBAs anymore. The cloud would do it. Yes. The first tractors were a thing because, so this is not, we&#8217;ve gone through phases like this before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:11:25] And in general, you see only more work coming. But do you see it something else with AI is that&#8217;s typically different than all the other changes that we had over the time.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:11:34] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> I think it&#8217;s the same kind of revolution, like with internet, like the industrial revolution and so on. The only difference is that it&#8217;s much faster.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:11:44] If we don&#8217;t help out, the society will not be able to cope with that change. And that&#8217;s a drastic impact on all of us. Yeah. And. All generations, actually,&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:11:57] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> and in Europe, because changing those [00:12:00] society might be a little bit too ambitious for us. But let&#8217;s try. But in your own organization, are you planning something for your people to say?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:07] Okay, guys, this might change a little bit. We have to catch you on top. Or do we need training? Or are you planning anything to help them take that next step?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:16] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> I&#8217;m lucky to be part of a Devoteam who has decided to invest a lot in AI for what we call the workspace or the office suite. So Devoteam is highly investing in Gemini and this is accessible to everyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:36] And what I encourage at each level of the teams is to identify opportunities to augment their work, to help. And then whenever I find an interesting use case, especially when I want to look, I don&#8217;t know, legal documents or structure within a contract and so on. It&#8217;s so fast, so reliable that and I push it to the teams and there are so [00:13:00] many use cases out there that we need to explore.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:13:04] So I have that chance to be, part of Devoteam in this on this aspect. For other, AI, AI for IT. Yes, definitely. We&#8217;re trying to identify where we have AI in all our platforms, including the foundations, like in let&#8217;s say API management, but it&#8217;s still like on the very beginning, I would say for sure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:13:28] Yeah. Knowing that this is done on top of what, whatever they need to do for the business. So it&#8217;s really best effort.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:13:37] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> So AI, big impact everybody talks about AI. We have to talk about AI, can&#8217;t get around it. But on the rest, because as you said, business is all just going on, right? Stuff needs to be done.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:13:48] So could you share anything about interesting projects or innovations that you have been involved in lately?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:13:55] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Whenever I have always pushed my teams knowing that [00:14:00] I don&#8217;t have a lot of techies in my team. I have a lot of functional analysts. This is for the business apps. Otherwise it&#8217;s real techies on the infrastructure layers like system workstation and so on. And I do come from the infrastructure world. My, my background is infrastructure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:14:19] So I went through a transformation or an upskilling during my four years at group it, but I was in touch with the business. So that wasn&#8217;t very difficult. What I noticed is that what we&#8217;re missing, at least at Devoteam is automation mass data management, industrialization. and for me, whenever someone in the team was able to reach a tooling or that would reduce, let&#8217;s say, the time to market for me, that was a success or a step forward into where we want to go.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:14:55] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:14:56] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> So lately we have used a low-code transformation [00:15:00] tool called Alteryx for many use cases. Including our mass campaigns we do in order to update the operating model twice a year. And we also used it in order to connect several systems together in order to automate the full chain around the AI process.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:15:19] So getting trained, getting the certification and then upon that get the the access to Gemini because that was Conditioned by your training and your certification. And all of this was done by someone who is really interested and passionate about automating processes, data injection and who is quite a techie, actually.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:15:47] And the real success factor is the strong push we had from the business. So we had a lot of success factors here that are important to highlight is strong [00:16:00] sponsorship from the business from Simon that, you know and then a lot of workshops and brainstorming on trying to project or imagining what if we do this and daring new solutions and at the same time having some tech people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:16] techies, I would say, inside the team to allow that change.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:21] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:22] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Now, that was a very short term solution. So now we need to think about, okay, how can we stabilize this tooling in order to make it more long term or industrialized? So it&#8217;s always that trade off between strong, fast time to market with simple solutions, but are more or less hard to maintain and then bring them into a more robust model.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:49] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah, any tips on how to do that? Because I could imagine that tomorrow there&#8217;s a new problem. And again, there&#8217;s a lot of push and we have to fix this problem now. So we forget the long [00:17:00] term for the first problem. What&#8217;s any best practices on how to make sure that you also implemented long term?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:17:07] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Now that we have the value.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:17:09] Out of it, I think we have, we can, that&#8217;s that facilitates the lobbying in order to have, the investment needed in order to have a more robust solution. And this is what we did also with BI. BI was introduced three years ago, at Devoteam , maybe four years ago because it was a need by finance and fully sponsored by finance, also based on Alteryx.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:17:36] which allows very fast time to market. And they were able to release the first dashboards for finance in a few months. And now BI is covering more than, I would say 40 views covering all domains still based on Alteryx. However, we&#8217;re reaching a limit. So we need to go on a more [00:18:00] robust platform.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:01] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:01] And something that you said twice now, and that&#8217;s intrigues me at the push of the business helps you to become successful. I also see some people saying that the push of the business is really a pain because always pushing, just give me the time to fix it. But you highlighted this. No, this is part of my success.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:18] So How do you see that pain part? Because I&#8217;m sure you recognize it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:23] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> It depends on the push. It&#8217;s the quality of the push. Because what happens is that at Devoteam, especially now that we&#8217;re growing from a model where we have a lot of small businesses, part of a group.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:40] And those businesses need some kind of a standard. Otherwise it&#8217;s very difficult to govern and steer the overall performance. So I&#8217;m not saying we should push a complete standard and be rigid about it, but there is a minimum to implement in order to be able [00:19:00] to compare, to follow and to to make the right decisions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:19:06] So the difficulty here we have is that sometimes the business will would push for exceptional or exceptional requests or comes out or deviates from the standards in order to meet some business needs. And sometimes it makes sense because we have to do it. And this is really bringing a business value.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:19:33] But sometimes it&#8217;s just. maybe a comfort zone or a legacy coming from the past in order to iterate again and to repeat just because we&#8217;re used to it. And so when we are in this situation, that&#8217;s annoying. But when we are in a situation where the business is pushing for innovation, And for fast time to [00:20:00] market and for value driven solutions that would make an impact.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:20:08] I&#8217;m a fan of those. Who wouldn&#8217;t?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:20:13] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> And there&#8217;s something else that you said that I wanted to get back to because that was the moment that if you listen to this podcast, you can&#8217;t see that, but your eyes started to shine a little bit more. And I was wondering, is it for you about the cool technology or about that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:20:26] That person that could that had the tool to make it happen. Because when you talk about how, but this person had the tool and he could really make it do that seemed to be more inspiring to you than the technology itself. So what&#8217;s the balance there for you?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:20:41] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> They are equally important to success.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:20:44] Yeah. Yeah. If I give the best tool to someone who doesn&#8217;t know how to use it, I can do anything with it. And if I have Someone who is really who is a genius, but I don&#8217;t give the right tools, then at some point he or she will leave. So do you [00:21:00] see the short of the equations?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:21:01] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> You see it as your job to make sure that connection is is the right one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:21:04] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Exactly. And to believe there is one also key component here is to give them the chance to maybe implement something where you wouldn&#8217;t really know what would be. the value, but you believe in it because you spot an opportunity there. So you give it a chance. Of course. As long as you can afford it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:21:30] Otherwise, it&#8217;s a huge risk.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:21:32] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> We&#8217;re still a business. There are boundaries.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:21:37] <strong>Jingle:<\/strong> IT Confessions Box. Every IT career has its challenges. In the Confessions Box, our guests share their lessons learned and resilience gained.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:21:51] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> So in a bit more scary question, maybe, but sometimes things go very wrong and that are sometimes the things that we learn most from. So do you [00:22:00] remember a failure that you thought, Oh, but it&#8217;s really a bit embarrassing because we failed, but it was really a good learning.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:05] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> No, if we don&#8217;t fail, we will. We never learn actually.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:13] And at each project closure, whatever it is with my teams, I always insist to have. A return on experience session.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:21] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Ah, yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:23] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Sometimes it&#8217;s a bit boring because It went so well. maybe people are not frank enough or transparent enough. And so they don&#8217;t learn much or because they barely have the time to do it so they do it very fast and then jump to another topic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:39] But one of the major failures I went through at Devoteam is what we did with the E. R. P. Project.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:49] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Always difficult ones.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:50] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Very difficult one. However, a key lesson that forced us to completely review our strategy and to [00:23:00] build our conviction elsewhere.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:03] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:04] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> And also what I went through wasn&#8217;t the CIO then, but I&#8217;m lucky to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:11] To see and live through this moment because it&#8217;s about making a tough decision at the right time.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:19] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah. Yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:20] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> And it, it&#8217;s emphasizing a bit and an, a story of mine. So my background is engineering. As an engineer, it&#8217;s very tough to stop a project on which you&#8217;re working and it&#8217;s your engineering pride that&#8217;s there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:35] So I would never. I would never give up.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:38] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> No, exactly.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:40] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> But then in the first actually it was in the first month of my MBA, after five years working as an engineer, the first thing I learned was about the business case. Yeah. And then about, sometimes, we stop projects. And it&#8217;s not about [00:24:00] doing the project but also about doing the right project.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:24:03] And if at some point the project is right, maybe two months later, it&#8217;s not the right one anymore. So that was an enlightenment for me. And really guided me through my years in the business. And it&#8217;s about, even though it&#8217;s an engineering prowess, it doesn&#8217;t make sense anymore. Let&#8217;s stop it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:24:23] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> We share the same background.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:24:24] I&#8217;m an engineer by education as well, so I definitely recognize what you say. But how do you do it? So how do you know? Okay, but this is the moment that I have to stop.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:24:36] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> It&#8217;s not in 24 hours. No, it doesn&#8217;t happen in 24 hours. That&#8217;s a lot of thinking, lobbying, checking all the perspectives you could have from business, from different domains. Also HR, finance. And that&#8217;s a lot of also discussions with the top decision makers. Like how are we relying on the strategy here?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:24:59] Is it [00:25:00] really a lot of investment? How much are we going to invest more in order to get a return on investment? What happened with this major project is that Business viability, sorry, viability wasn&#8217;t there anymore. And that was a very simple example of what I learned in my MBA courses. When you handle a portfolio.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:25:23] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Your business case is gone. It&#8217;s gone.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:25:25] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Your Time to market is extended. And your business case your costs are doubling, if not tripling. Where&#8217;s the business case? Now, sometimes it&#8217;s not about that anymore. It&#8217;s about are we going to succeed with the first ambition? And it&#8217;s about being able to reposition the ambition to say, maybe whatever we thought about, in order to standardize the way we work, will not happen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:25:55] Let&#8217;s stay different and local, however, let&#8217;s [00:26:00] consolidate on another level. That requires a lot of maturity and strategic thinking. And I witnessed a lot of back and forth, meetings in order to achieve this decision. But definitely it is business, a business decision in terms of finances.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:19] But it&#8217;s also about is it gonna bring us the benefits we were expecting at a specific timing, because if it&#8217;s too late, it&#8217;s not worth it. So maybe we have to change the strategy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:35] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah. Interesting.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:37] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> I don&#8217;t have a , there&#8217;s&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:38] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> no silver bullets,&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:39] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> no silver bullet. But however, if finances are not good, if the benefits are not there then definitely not worth it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:47] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah. But I, that&#8217;s, I see that in a lot of projects as a difficult decision also because you already put a lot of money into it. And then you have to abandon that. So I sometimes see the, and I think it&#8217;s a wrong argument, [00:27:00] but I already put money in it, so I&#8217;ll keep on doing it because I have to get something out of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:27:04] But you just keep on pouring money in that black hole . Exactly. That will never deliver.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:27:08] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Yeah, and I would say if there is the right governance, in order to check business viability on a regular basis, that&#8217;s key. Yeah. In order to check the strategic alignment and business viability.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:27:22] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Interesting. Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:27:24] And I think to close it off, what I&#8217;m very interested in, and it&#8217;s not that we have to do this in five seconds or something, but so you&#8217;ve been a CIO now for a short period. You&#8217;ve seen the world of it for a long period. And I&#8217;m I could imagine that there&#8217;s out there people that listen to this that want to become CIO or also our CEO just for a short period.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:27:46] What? What is a good advice for them? What? What did you? What advice did you want to have?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:27:53] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Several advices. Actually there are a lot of dimensions that are key [00:28:00] for a successful CIO. But it&#8217;s also about finding the personal balance because not all the CIOs are equal. It&#8217;s not the definitely the same mix of whether you are a strategic thinker or a leader of opinion or a good manager. or someone who is very good in finances and keeps the budget very tight and safe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:27] So there are a lot of components that a CIO should have. But it&#8217;s mostly, I would say, it&#8217;s about the people. It&#8217;s about empowering the people you work with. And it&#8217;s about finding the right allies as part of your team. That&#8217;s key to make it happen. Another thing is about again, around people is about looking at the team performance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:58] Whenever there [00:29:00] are individuals who are slowing down the team performance, then there to ask yourself, do I have the right team? And it&#8217;s about daring to review the casting, even though sometimes people go through maybe a tough periods and you try to be patient about it to give them a chance, which is okay, a chance, another chance, but if it&#8217;s not working, then there to stop because this is impacting the team.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:29:32] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Yeah. And I think that&#8217;s on both levels, right? So it&#8217;s impacting team, but it&#8217;s also impacting these people.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:29:38] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Yeah of course, because they are not at the right place. Exactly.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:29:41] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> So we can better help them bring them to the right place. That will make them more happy as well.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:29:46] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Absolutely.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:29:48] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> And it&#8217;s very interesting because we, we rounded off now because we started with all kinds of tech and the impact of AI.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:29:55] And there you also mentioned, but this will have a society impact and this will also have an impact in how we [00:30:00] work. And your advice to everybody out there is okay. It&#8217;s about the people. So we&#8217;re just back again and you&#8217;re a CIO, you&#8217;re a techie, but it&#8217;s about the people.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:10] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Exactly. Team performance is about people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:12] Yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:13] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> I would say very nice conclusion for our chat. Thank you so much for your insights and your candid view on your work and what you do. I think definitely a big help for everybody out there listening to this. So thank you a lot, Nathalie, and I hope to see you soon.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:26] <strong>Nathalie Bachour:<\/strong> Thank you, Gert Jan, for the opportunity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:28] I&#8217;m looking forward to hear other voices other CIOs also sharing their experiences.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:33] <strong>Gert Jan van Halem:<\/strong> Stay tuned for that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:37] <strong>Jingle:<\/strong> Discover other podcasts on https:\/\/devoteam.info\/podcast\/ . Devoteam, AI driven tech consulting.<\/p>\n<\/details>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-8d39b2df wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-stretch has-gray-light-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-gray-light-background-color has-background has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-cc3be67e wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" style=\"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium)\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-meet-our-guest\">Meet our guest<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-gray-light-color has-alpha-channel-opacity has-gray-light-background-color has-background is-style-default\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0\"\/>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-8d39b2df wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:100%\">\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\">Nathalie Bachour is an IT Transformation Specialist with 18 years of experience in IT service and infrastructure management. As an engineer and consultant, Nathalie has a broad approach to project management. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-8d39b2df wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:20%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized is-style-rounded-full is-style-rounded\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"417\" height=\"416\" src=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/Nathalie-Bachour.jpg\" alt=\"Devoteam CIO Nathalie Bachour\" class=\"wp-image-77492\" style=\"object-fit:cover;width:71px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/Nathalie-Bachour.jpg 417w, https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/Nathalie-Bachour-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/Nathalie-Bachour-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 417px) 100vw, 417px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:80%\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-fc397e0a wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<p class=\"has-x-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:500\"><strong>Nathalie Bachour<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-x-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px\">CIO at Devoteam<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized wp-duotone-red-devoteam\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/nathalie-bachour-a5432a1\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/linkedin.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-308\" style=\"width:20px\"\/><\/a><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-stretch is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-gray-light-background-color has-background has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-cc3be67e wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" style=\"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium)\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-meet-our-host\">Meet our host<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-gray-light-color has-alpha-channel-opacity has-gray-light-background-color has-background is-style-default\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0\"\/>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-8d39b2df wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:100%\">\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\">Gert Jan van Halem&nbsp;is Devoteam\u2019s CTO and a lifelong computer science enthusiast. As Devoteam\u2019s CTO, he investigates what drives Devoteam\u2019s customers and IT trends to provide technical direction. Adding value to the customers is the primary driver of his research.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-8d39b2df wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:20%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized is-style-rounded-full is-style-rounded\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/1678278223475-1.jpeg\" alt=\"Devoteam CTO Gert Jan Van Halem on the Foundations of AI\" class=\"wp-image-69719\" style=\"aspect-ratio:1;object-fit:cover;width:71px;height:auto\"\/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:80%\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-fc397e0a wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<p class=\"has-x-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:500\"><strong>Gert Jan van Halem<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-x-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px\">CTO at Devoteam<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized wp-duotone-red-devoteam\"><a href=\"https:\/\/fr.linkedin.com\/in\/gert-jan-van-halem\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/linkedin.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-308\" style=\"width:20px\"\/><\/a><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-5e24bdfd wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\" style=\"padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium)\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-cio-confessions-the-cio-s-go-to-podcast\">CIO Confessions: The CIO&#8217;s Go-To Podcast<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Ever wondered what it&#8217;s really like to lead an IT department? The podcast CIO Confessions offers a look behind the scenes:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>CIOs from diverse backgrounds and industries share their personal stories, \u201cconfessions\u201d, and wisdom, providing an unfiltered view of what it takes to succeed in IT leadership.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>By listening to this podcast, you will gain insights into the impact of emerging technologies like AI, managing complex digital transformations, leading and motivating teams, and dealing with constant change.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcast or your favourite channel. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Explore more about the innovative use of AI in podcasting, as <a href=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/en-se\/success-story\/ai-generated-podcast-lequipe\/\">demonstrated in our work with L&#8217;\u00c9quipe<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https:\/\/cio-confessions.captivate.fm\/listen\">Subscribe to the podcast<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this episode of CIO Confessions&#8217;, our host, Gert Jan van Halem, discusses the importance of balancing day-to-day operations with long-term strategic planning with Devoteam&#8217;s CIO, Nathalie Bachour. She shares 5 lessons on how AI will impact the workplace, particularly the service desk, and the need for social change to address potential job displacement. Her [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":142801,"template":"","categories":[],"tags":[],"industry":[],"class_list":["post-464838","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"acf":[],"cards":"\n\t<div class=\"single-post-card\">\n\n\t\t<figure class=\"wp-block-post-featured-image\"><a href=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/en-se\/podcast\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\/\" target=\"_self\" ><img width=\"730\" height=\"550\" src=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/CIO-Confessions-EP.1-preview-image.jpg\" class=\"attachment-post-thumbnail size-post-thumbnail wp-post-image\" alt=\"CIO Confessions EP.1 &#8211; Why People Are Still Key to Success in the Age of AI\" style=\"aspect-ratio:4\/3;width:100%;object-fit:cover;\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/CIO-Confessions-EP.1-preview-image.jpg 730w, https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/CIO-Confessions-EP.1-preview-image-300x226.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 730px) 100vw, 730px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\t\t\n\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-43282307 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n\t<p style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:700\" class=\"has-link-color wp-elements-1 wp-block-lp-post-type has-text-color has-primary-color has-small-font-size\">Podcast<\/p>\n\n\t\t\n\t\t<h3 style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:400\" class=\"wp-block-post-title has-base-font-size\"><a href=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/en-se\/podcast\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\/\" target=\"_self\" >CIO Confessions EP.1 &#8211; Why People Are Still Key to Success in the Age of AI<\/a><\/h3><\/div>\n\t\t\n\t<\/div>\n\n","yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v28.4 (Yoast SEO v28.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>CIO Confessions EP.1 - Nathalie Bachour&#039;s perspective on AI<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"In this first episode of &quot;CIO Confessions,&quot; Natalie Bachour, discusses the challenges and opportunities she faces with the rise of AI.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/en-se\/podcast\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"CIO Confessions EP.1 - Why People Are Still Key to Success in the Age of AI\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"In this first episode of &quot;CIO Confessions,&quot; Natalie Bachour, discusses the challenges and opportunities she faces with the rise of AI.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/en-se\/podcast\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Devoteam\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2025-02-18T09:48:34+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/devoteam.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/CIO-Confessions-EP.1-preview-image.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"730\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"550\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/podcast\\\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/podcast\\\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\\\/\",\"name\":\"CIO Confessions EP.1 - Nathalie Bachour's perspective on AI\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/podcast\\\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/podcast\\\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2024\\\/11\\\/CIO-Confessions-EP.1-preview-image.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2024-11-13T07:28:41+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2025-02-18T09:48:34+00:00\",\"description\":\"In this first episode of \\\"CIO Confessions,\\\" Natalie Bachour, discusses the challenges and opportunities she faces with the rise of AI.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/podcast\\\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-SE\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/podcast\\\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-SE\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/podcast\\\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\\\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2024\\\/11\\\/CIO-Confessions-EP.1-preview-image.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2024\\\/11\\\/CIO-Confessions-EP.1-preview-image.jpg\",\"width\":730,\"height\":550},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/podcast\\\/cio-confessions-ep-1-why-people-are-key-to-success-in-the-age-of-ai\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Podcasts\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/devoteam.info\\\/en-se\\\/podcast\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":3,\"name\":\"CIO Confessions EP.1 &#8211; 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She shares 5 lessons on how AI will impact the workplace, particularly the service desk, and the need for social change to address potential job displacement. 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